Elizabeth Patterson (b. 1753/55; d. after 1820)
Parents: Robert & Sarah PattersonSiblings: Mary | Thomas | Abigail | Sarah | James | Peter | Robert | Elizabeth | Lydia | William
By Wes Patterson (Last Revised: 5 April 2017)
In the late 1790's Daniel and Elizabeth Patterson Ponder moved from York Co SC to Buncombe Co NC. Daniel died in 1817 in Buncombe County. At this time, nothing else is known by me regarding Elizabeth Patterson Ponder.
Some have stated that Elizabeth was an Oxford, or was a Patterson and then remarried to an Oxford after Daniel Ponder died. Elizabeth Patterson Ponder was married only one time, and that to Daniel Ponder Jr. Pat Saupe was the co-author with Fox T. Ponder on the 1982 book Kentucky Ponders. Six years later, in 1988, Pat authored a supplement to the original book, aptly entitled Kentucky Ponders Supplement. Confusion arose at one point over the identity of an Elizabeth Oxford. Here is Pat Saupe's explanation to me in August, 2003 as to how this happened:
From: Pat Saupe Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003To: Wes Patterson
Wes, Elizabeth Patterson who married Daniel Ponder Jr. did not marry an Oxford after Daniel died. She was buried as Elizabeth Ponder. This is one of the items that got blown out of shape by [another researcher]. It is a long story - an old lady in Buncombe Co. NC, Bonnie Angel told me her gr-grandmother Elizabeth was an Oxford. When I did the first Ponder book, we reported it as such going by her memory. In later years, [if you'll] read the supplement we did, it explains that Bonnie got her gr-grandmothers confused and Elizabeth was a Patterson. After researching John Holcombe's wife Elizabeth, we find her signing her name "Elizabeth O. Holcombe". We could find NO relationship to Elizabeth Patterson Ponder and the Oxford family. No relationship to the Ponders either except through the Holcombe family.
....Robert Ponder was in Clay Co. KY with the rest of the boys when Daniel died 1817. He went back to Buncombe to live to care for Elizabeth and I can't tell you off the top of my head which census, but you will see an elderly lady with him at some point. The grandson we talked to said Elizabeth is buried atop that hill with Robert on Robert's old property.
PatDaniel Ponder Jr. was the son of Daniel and Jemima Bennett Ponder of Sussex Co Delaware, Augusta Co Va and York Co SC. The Ponders are a very well documented family, even going back a few generations prior to Daniel Sr. Daniel Sr was born 1725-28 to Richard and Sarah Hamour Ponder. Daniel Sr married Jemima Bennett on 8-23-1751. Jemima was born ca. 1724 in Sussex Co., Cedar Creek Hundred, DE.
Daniel and Jemima moved to Augusta Co Va in the 1750's. On 9 Nov 1760, John and Lydia Wright, and John and Margaret Craven sold 310 acres to Daniel Ponder (Sr) for 40 pounds. This land was at the head of a fork, Cooks Creek. Wit: Daniel Harrison & Jonathan Douglas. (Ref: Augusta Co VA Deed Book 9, pg 17).
This land (310 acres) was sold by Daniel Ponder to Joseph Rutherford on 10 Sept 1763. Nine days later Jemima Ponder relinquished dower to this land. At that time the Ponders were on the move to the Carolinas as were the Pattersons, Blacks, Cravens, Harrisons, and so many other families.
By the time the Revolutionary War came around, the Ponders were very much associated with the British/Loyalist side of things. A Daniel Ponder was recorded as taking an Oath of Neutrality in South Carolina on 8 Oct 1775. However, was this Daniel Sr or Daniel Jr? Daniel Jr married Elizabeth Patterson most likely in 1775. Others taking the Oath of Neutrality that year were several Blacks, including Joseph and John Black, husbands of Sarah and Lydia Patterson (sisters of Elizabeth Patterson Ponder).
I suspect that the Daniel Ponder who took the Oath of Neutrality was Daniel Jr, but I can't prove that. It could very well have been Daniel Sr. I do know that by 1781, several Loyalist families had moved further south in SC to the Dorchester Fort area where many neutral Quakers lived. The Fort at Dorchester was held by the British for about 10 years from the late 1770's til about 1788. The following notes are from one of many communications I have had with one of Daniel Ponder’s descendants, Lee Ponder.
Wes,
Have you seen a family history entitled THE JULIANS and Allied Families by Elizabeth Cate Manly 1972? The portion I have is an eight page section I obtained from the Ga Archives.
The paper is concerned primarily with the descendants of George and Rebecca McKinney Julian who came to Tennessee from North Carolina about 1815.
A page that is numbered at the bottom as "7" contains the following paragraph of particular interest to me:
George Julian was probably a signer of the petition to the King on the boundary line dispute between North and South Carolina, 5-15-1775. He was a Loyalist, which accounts for: ' 1782-Act of Assembly was passed at Jacksonborough (west of Charleston a few miles) which confiscated the estate of George Julian for public uses-whereas George was dead at the time of passing of said act.'. Another source says: "Estate not confiscated, but sold, 1788, by adm. Jacob Julian for George's heirs." In regard to his death; "1-18-1782-Affidavit of Jemima Ponder saith that she did live at the Creek Meeting House below Dogester (Dorchester) and that George Julian who did live on King's Creek in District aforesaid (Camden) was there, and she the said deponent did see the said George Julian depart this life between the first and middle of September in the year 1781." (The Meeting House was on the Ashley River.) (It is assumed that George was injured in a battle at the Fort of Dorchester, and died of wounds.) Papers on file, S.C. Hist. Com., Columbia, S.C. After George Julian's death, his widow married a Black: "Widow Black, neighbor of Jemima Ponder."
My primary interest in this paragraph is the establishment of the fact that Jemima Ponder, wife of Daniel Sr., had left York Co SC and was living at the Creek Meeting House, which I later learned was a Quaker meeting house. Having read the excerpts of the Collins Book quoted by Pat Saupe regarding Col. Hambright's capture of a young Ponder carrying a message for the British forces and the comments clearly directed at old Daniel Ponder, led me to the belief that Loyalists in the York Co SC area were very unpopular at the time and Jemima and some other residents did migrate to Dorchester. This paper suggests that she migrated with Julians and possibly Blacks. There is no mention of Daniel Sr., but other investigations led to the conclusion that he was buried in a family cemetery near the line between Daniel Ponder's land [in York Co.] and Frederick Hambright's land where Ponders and Hambrights were believed by older local citizens to have been buried. The cemetery was destroyed by later landowners so could not be found for proof. The assumption is that Daniel Sr. died, [and then] Jemima and others of Loyalist families fled the area for Dorchester. Daniel Jr. remained in the area, but apparently soon after moved to an area that was at the time Buncombe Co NC, probably the part that is now Madison County because that is where many of his descendants appeared.
I did not find Pattersons mentioned in the Julian paper, but a paper sent to me by Tressie Nealey contains under the heading PONDER "In my Harrison Notes Jan 1995 p 5 I mentioned Ponders and their connection to the Joseph Harrison family before they came to Buncombe and that they too came to Buncombe. The HERITAGE OF MADISON COUNTY has an article about Ponders; #446 which tells about Daniel Ponder 1755-1815/17. He lived in York Co SC on Clark's Fork of Bullock's creek as did Joseph Harrison with his father Nathaniel Harrison. He was married to Elizabeth Patterson (Pattersons related to Harrisons via the wife of old Jeremiah Harrison)." I do not know the author of the article nor have I seen any documentary evidence to support the idea that Elizabeth wife of Daniel Jr. was a Patterson, but then this is more evidence than I have seen that Elizabeth was of another family.
Any of this material that you want a copy of I will be glad to send you.
Lee
Lee did send me those papers on the Ponders, the Dorchester SC papers, etc. I am very thankful to Lee Ponder for all the research he has done on this family. I am also thankful to Pat Saupe and Cay Devin for all of their research and the sharing of information with me and so many others. Pat Saupe published two books on the Ponders that has documented this family extremely well. Those books are as follows:
Kentucky Ponders, 1982, by Fox T. Ponder and Pat SaupeKentucky Ponders Supplement, 1988, by Pat SaupeThanks again, Pat, Cay, Lee, and everyone else who has contributed to our being able to sort out these many Ponder families.
What does this Dorchester SC connection mean to us? It means that some of the Blacks, Ponders, and Julians did not leave York Co SC and go straight to western NC and eastern TN in the 1790's and early 1800's. Many of them migrated to Dorchester SC first, most likely around 1781. Thomas Patterson (brother of Elizabeth Patterson Ponder) sold his York Co SC land in 1786 to his brother Robert Patterson Jr, indicating that he had already left the area and wasn't planning on returning. The men who were labeled in 1783 by Col. William Bratton as being Tories or Loyalists during the Revolution were as follows:
- Peeter Juland Jr.
- Benjamin Juland
- Peeter Juland
- Wm. Juland
- Daniel Ponder
- Jary Juland
- Robert Black
- James Irvin
- Wm. Patterson
- Josaph Black
- Thomas Peeterson
- John Black
- Mathew Black
Notice the Pattersons, Blacks, and Julians, in addition to Daniel Ponder. I'm 100% certain that Thomas and William Patterson were sons of Robert "R" Patterson. I'm 100% certain that Joseph and John Black were sons-in-law of Robert "R". The Daniel Ponder MAY have been Daniel Sr, but IF it was Daniel Jr, he was the other son-in-law of Robert "R". Robert Black was a brother of Joseph and John Black, and Mathew Black is believed to have been the son of Robert Black. And then there are the Julians! The Peter Juland (Sr) listed above was the brother of the George Julian mentioned as having lived in Dorchester, SC during the Revolution. Many of these Julians moved up into Randolph and Burke Counties, NC, and some later into eastern TN in the early 1800's. As for James Irvin, all I know is he keeps showing up around the Clark's Fork of Bullocks Creek families, but I don't know what his relationship was to them yet. Some Irvins were intermarried with the Julians, so this may have been the connection.
The point here is that some of these families had migrated to Dorchester, SC together around 1781. I believe these families had more relationships than we know of at this time. For example, the name Peter passed down through the Patterson family quite extensively after this. Were they related to the Julians in some way? Or rather the Blacks perhaps. Were they more closely related to the Julians than we realize?
Regardless, the families of Patterson, Ponder, Black, Harrison, Cravens, and Julian were extremely close during the years of the Revolution, and Daniel and Elizabeth Patterson Ponder were obviously no exception.
According to Pat Saupe, Daniel Ponder Jr. never had a son named Daniel. The following is a list of the children of Daniel and Elizabeth Patterson Ponder:
- Lydia (b. 1776; d. ____), m. William Bailey Roberts
- son (b. bef 1790; d. ____)
- John J. (b. ca 1779; d. 1850-59), m. Winnie Holcombe
- daughter (b. ca 1784; d. ____)
- Robert (b. ca 1786; d.ca. 1857), m. Elizabeth Holcombe
- daughter (b. ca 1788; d. ____)
- Joseph (b. 1792/98; d. 1876), m. 1) Catherine Holcombe, 2) Elizabeth Holcombe, 3) Nancy Tipton
Daniel Ponder Jr was very much involved in deeds in Buncombe Co NC in the 1790's through 1810's with many individuals, but especially John Patterson, his nephew and son of Thomas Patterson. Daniel Ponder Jr died about 1817 in Buncombe Co NC.
